E060_Bridging Cultures for Safety (Intercultural Intelligence): 12 Dimensions of Culture

In this episode, we continue the conversation of Bridging Cultures for Safety, unveiling the 12 Dimensions of Culture that shape our worldviews and interactions.

We kick off by revisiting the three primary worldviews:

1️⃣ Honour <> Shame
2️⃣ Innocence <> Guilt
3️⃣ Power <> Fear

This forms the basis of our cultural preferences. Our upbringing, education, and life experiences deeply influence these drivers.

Drawing an analogy to a kaleidoscope of colours, we explore how understanding these worldviews allows us to adjust our approach to better connect with people who see the world differently.

The Three Colours of Worldview were discussed in Episode 059, which is a must-listen if you haven't already.

Our journey continues as we address the complexities of teamwork, leadership, and working with diverse colleagues. We emphasise that being different doesn't necessarily mean being difficult, but a matter of unique perspectives.

Imagine a team with 15 nationalities among 120 members; it's not just about worldviews but 120 distinct personalities, adding depth to the conversation.

Tools such as DiSC and e-Colours help us to navigate this complexity.

We highlight the value of cultural agility, which extends beyond nationality, food preferences, or dressing styles, encompassing the three colours of worldview.

Introducing the 12 Dimensions of Culture, we provide a glimpse into

1- Growth
2- Relationship
3- Outlook
4- Destiny
5- Context
6- Connecting
7- Expression
8- Decision-Making
9- Planning
10- Communication
11- Accountability
12- Status 

These dimensions offer insights into our perspectives on growth, relationships, and much more.

This episode underscores that diversity isn't about uniformity but about leveraging differences to achieve shared goals effectively. The 12 Dimensions of Culture help us navigate this diversity, fostering better communication and collaboration.

Remember: These dimensions aren't fixed; people fall along spectrums, which calls for open, meaningful conversations and an appreciation of the richness diversity brings.

If you're keen on exploring how to bridge cultures for safer operations and promote a culture of care, reach out to us at hello@safetycollaborations.com or visit our website. 

Dive into the world of cultural understanding and collaboration with Karin, a certified coach in this area. 

Thanks for listening!

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This episode was produced under Safety Collaborations Limited and now continues as part of Karin Ovari Limited. While we are not currently releasing new episodes, the entire library remains active, and the topics covered are just as relevant today as when they were first recorded.

To learn more about my current work in leadership and communication, visit karinovari.com and the leadership community, The Supervisors Hub.

Connect with us on LinkedIn: Karin Ovari, Nuala Gage,

If you enjoyed this episode, please help us spread the word and leave a review on your preferred podcast player.

Stay Safe, Stay Well
The Safety Collaborators

Chapters

• 0:11 Bridging Cultures
• 12:03 Outlook, Destiny, and Context in Workplace
• 18:06 Cultural Adaptation and Decision Making
• 29:27 Understanding Cultural Communication Differences
• 40:17 Passionate Conversation on Safety and Collaboration

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:11

We have all heard the statement if it wasn't for people, work would be easy. Wouldn't it be great to see people as the solution and not the problem? Today, we're going to continue exploring the topic of bridging cultures and share wisdom on the lenses we see the world through and how to dance with the 12 dimensions of culture.

Speaker 2: 0:35

I am Nula and I am Karey, and we are the safety collaborators.

Speaker 1: 0:40

Our mission is to help people have better conversations and change the way they think about safety. Consider us your thinking partners, sharing expertise and wisdom in everything safety, safety culture and psychological safety.

Speaker 2: 0:58

In the last episode we chatted about the three colours of world views, which broadly looks at our personal cultural preferences through a mixture of three lenses or drivers. As a reminder, and for someone who might be listening to this for the first time, these three drivers are honour shame, which means doing that which brings honour or not. Innocent guilt, so doing the right thing or not. And power of fear, so doing that which brings control, power and influence, for good or not. Loosely, every single person on the planet has a mix of these three world drivers.

Speaker 2: 1:37

Well, this is the assessment that we make with our individual preferences, and those drivers are brought to us through how we were educated, what country we lived in, what our family situation was like, who were the people who were our mentors. As we grow up, you know, all of these things colour who we are. So, for an example, I was born in Australia to German parents, so I actually have quite I have a strong innocent guilt mix, but I also have quite a bit of honour shame as well. I can remember, you know, being told no, we don't air our dirty laundry, you know, right, that stays in the family, type stuff. So those sorts of comments can colour how we see the world and the reason we use the word three colours, the three colours of world view, is because if you put the three primaries together and mix them all up, you get something like 18 million different colours, or you brought the word to it, the kaleidoscope of colour.

Speaker 1: 2:32

And what's really helpful is understanding that kaleidoscope of colour through the reference of the three colours of world view. It helps us adjust ourselves. It's not about changing who we are, but it's about learning and growing and enhancing our wisdom and cultural agility so that when we're working with others, we can understand where they're coming from and why we might be seeing the world from a different view, a different lens, why we have different drivers. And the three questions that are the litmus test to reflect the primary drivers of world view are really helpful, and those are does my action bring honour to those involved or does it bring them shame? Is it the right thing to do? Does it do justice to all of those involved? And is it empowering and life giving? And does it diminish fear or does it instill an increase fear? And we did a lovely deeper dive into those in episode 59. And if you haven't listened, I seriously suggest you go back and have a listen or go to the show notes on safetycollaborationscom. Forward slash podcast.

Speaker 2: 3:44

So today we wanted to expand more on that because, I mean, there are so many elements to how we work together as teams or how we lead teams, how we work with our co-workers, and the truth is we're all different and, as you often say, we're different not necessarily difficult, but we may perceive that other person as being difficult, but in fact, they just come at it from a different perspective, either their own global perspective, which is the three colours of world view, or a more, I'm going to say, dimensional perspective, and an example of that would be how we prefer to communicate what constitutes a work relationship. We're going to talk through some of these dimensions in a minute and we talk about them as polarities at times. So, do we like sharing or do we not like sharing?

Speaker 1: 4:38

as a simple, easy, understandable example and I think we've mentioned it a few times is that, when we look at a group of culturally diverse workforce, or engagement there might be, let's say, 15 nationalities and a workforce or a project team of 120 people. So it's not just 15 potential different colours of world view, but it's also 120 personalities that come into that, because that adds a whole different level of complexity and layer in a different dimension to the conversation.

Speaker 2: 5:12

Well, interestingly, in the work that I've done on this with Knowledgeworks, which is the Marco Blankenberg where I first discovered these tools, in fact, or one of the big other tools that they use is actually the disk, we do use disk. We also use e-colours. You know we have a couple of different ones, because it is an important part of the bigger picture. And what's really important for everyone to understand is none of this is about labelling. It's about understanding self and others and others exactly. And how do we get through a day with the most success, whether that's drilling a well or having a family dinner?

Speaker 1: 5:54

Exactly yes, or even away and staying with family at the moment, and I always used to love it. My mother-unlaw these days but we're very good friends she always used to describe that you know, you only stay with family for three days because after that they start to. They're like fish, they start to smell and a lot of that is because you know you bring in all sorts of different things, but sometimes it's just even having to understand that even if you were from the same family, you see the world differently and you do different things. You know I'm an incredibly out there, extroverted, loud personality in many instances, but I'm staying with family who are a little more introverted, a little quieter, and I need to know that I have to give them time to rejuvenate and energise because otherwise they're going to find me exhausting whilst I'm here and not being offended if one of them goes and disappears off into their room or their office for a couple of hours because they need time.

Speaker 1: 6:58

I haven't done anything wrong, I haven't said anything wrong. It's about that understanding, Whereas 10, 15 years ago I probably would have been like well, what did I do? Did I say something Like what's wrong? Why have you just disappeared for two hours. Whereas that understanding is fabulous. I'll check in with you later. Can I bring you tea, and it works in work as well.

Speaker 2: 7:17

Very much so, and we call this cultural agility. So when we talk about this, it's not about just nationality or what people eat or don't eat, or dress or don't dress. That's part of the story, because it becomes part of an individual's norms cultural norms, ethnicity, those sorts of things. But these tools that we're talking about here, what's really lovely about them and I guess why I really like them is the three colours of worldview applies to everybody to some degree. It helps us to understand that my view is not the only view, and that's the critical piece that is so key. And then the 12 dimensions in some ways help us dive a little bit deeper into that. So we're going to actually go through those 12 dimensions in a minute, and the point of this is not to give you an in-depth story about each one, but just to give you a context of what those 12 dimensions are. And they help us map that cultural diversity a little bit more and at a more personal level. And the idea behind it is, once you get to learn and understand these, and we measure this as well. So we actually have tools to measure.

Speaker 2: 8:30

Both of these are measurement tools. To help you start that conversation, the program that we run is called Bridging Cultures for Safety, and if we want to use this, if you've got a diverse workforce, then this is a great tool to start understanding Right, we've got a lot of different people here. Let's help each other understand how to get the best out of each other and it is a self-analysis, I suppose, as well, so you can do this for yourself and can do it for teams, and it works really. The group report is really fascinating to look at, because when we're in a team and everybody talks about team development, you know we've all got to think the same and know, and we are not the same, and it's that diversity that gives us the strength in many ways to do what we need to do, and that's so critical.

Speaker 1: 9:25

So shall we dive into the 12 dimensions.

Speaker 2: 9:28

Very quickly from the top to bottom. There's 12 of them. There's growth, relationship, outlook, destiny, context, connecting, expression, decision making, planning, communication, accountability and status Don't expect you to remember that and we're going to look at each one of them individually now. Before that, we'll actually also share a story about how we use this in practice. So shall we start with growth? We'll just go from the top to the bottom, I think, so that sounds fair.

Speaker 2: 9:56

So when we talk about growth, we tend to and we're going to look at this from a business perspective, so from a working life perspective the polarity for growth is people on one side and material on the other. So it means if we were to invest time, money, energy, whatever is required, are we more people oriented or are we more material systems, processes, buildings, even oriented? So if we're people oriented, it means that we place more emphasis on the impact that this decision might have, or this process that we're going to go through will have, on people versus. I want to invest more money in this and more worry about the people later. Everything is a bit situational as well, but sometimes you need to invest money into IT and buildings etc. But then you've got this more task oriented approach versus people oriented approach.

Speaker 1: 10:51

The next dimension that we're going to look at is relationship, and that is a relationship's universal or situational? And if a relationship is developed in one sphere of your life, do you extend it to other spheres? So when we talk about that is, let's say, you have a relationship in, you can get on with somebody quite well at work does that then extend into a personal relationship, like I'll come and meet my family or let's go fishing on the weekend, or something like that, or is it work is work and players play, and the two shall not mix.

Speaker 2: 11:23

I know I've definitely worked with people like that and it's funny for me. I find that really difficult because I'm much more universal.

Speaker 1: 11:30

I think both of us are in that aspect and the gain.

Speaker 1: 11:33

It's that understanding of well, it's not, the person doesn't like you and isn't happy to work with you, but they just don't mix business and pleasure, whereas and other people find it and who don't do that find it really exhausting when people go, come on, come for drinks after work or come to the family barbecue at the picnic park or you know whatever family date is, and they're going. I don't want to meet your family, I don't want you to meet my family. They might, and it's not because I don't like you, but there's a line indeed. What's?

Speaker 2: 12:02

next. The next one is outlook. So do you have a more traditional outlook or a more innovative outlook? And I think that's a really interesting one for this time in our lives, or human history, because there is so much going on and we hear talk about. Are we losing traditions or are we being more future thinking when we look about work? So do we measure our organisational success or does the company I work for I don't mean ours, but you know well, maybe we do.

Speaker 2: 12:33

Success is based on future opportunities or on past achievements. How many times have we sort of heard people say, well, we've always done it this way and so we've got to do it. That that was successful back then? Yes, great, but what do we need to do to move forward? So you're going to have people who are much more focused on the history versus future. So those traditional, their past focused people. They talk about the history of their family and their business and whatever. And then you've got those innovators. So really, that is all very nice, but not as important as wondering what's going on tomorrow. What will tomorrow bring? When do we land on Mars? I think that's a really important question, right, you know. So it's what can we do today and tomorrow, and whether it's prospecting, you know potential work, having a new engineering maze of doing things, new systems. Let's look at a better process or system. We've got others who are on the workforce, but that system's working. Why do you need to change?

Speaker 1: 13:36

it, or we've got history in developing that system and it's my baby. Why do you want to come in and bring in something new?

Speaker 2: 13:41

Yeah, and so these things are really interesting. You just triggered a thought then. But you know, when we're employing people or trying to induct people into a group or a team, this is quite useful to know. So if you've got a team of people who are very much focused on what the future can bring and how we can improve operations and are always looking for that continuous improvement, but you're inviting and bringing somebody into, just that just terrifies them. They're not comfortable there at all.

Speaker 1: 14:09

Are you setting them up for success or are you setting them up for failure? Exactly, exactly, exactly. The next one we're going to talk about is destiny. Are we directed, so? Is your environment in control of you, so it's an external locus of control, or are you in control of your environment, so it's an internal locus of control?

Speaker 1: 14:33

When we talk about a directed style, you know people in this seem to see themselves as guided and believe that others are in control, whether it's from a societal perspective. This is where I fit into society and I am guided and directed. You will do this, you will be like that. This will be your destiny, or directive. I believe I can make anything of myself. I am in control of my own destiny and regardless of where I've come from or what I have or haven't got, I can become anything that I want to be, and it can. Being directive can be very strongly individualistic, because I am determined to make myself this picture of whatever it might be, whereas directed can be very. I fit into my community, I fit into my team, I will do as I am told, and we see that play out in so many ways.

Speaker 1: 15:24

An example just popped to mind, where one of the team on one of the projects I was on arrived a day early and one of the managers said how could he have arrived a day early? Why didn't he question? But he got his flight details, he got his information, he went oh, that's interesting, they want me there a day early Didn't question because he was directed, whereas somebody else, with a different worldview, with a different on the other side I'm directive could have been like oh, hang on a second, I've got family plans. Why on earth do you want me to come a day early? You know, and we'll question and we'll speak up and say what's going on. So how do we look at I'm doing what I'm told versus possibly, I'm questioning what I'm told? And then where does that balance come in, to be healthy within a team where people may be on completely opposite directions?

Speaker 2: 16:13

And you may already be hearing in this through these few, that we've already mentioned that there's overlap. Yes, all of these overlap and play together. You know one or the other. You're somewhere on that polarity or that spectrum and I think that one plays nicely into the next one which is all about context. How often do we say context matters?

Speaker 2: 16:33

But when we talk about context, that the, if we look at the ends of the polarity or that line, we have informal and formal. So if we're informal, you know you ask yourself, do you operate with few strict rules? You know you don't like rules Basically, I know that person very well rules of behavior, or does one really value the following protocols and having strict rules and doing as I'm told? That type of thing. So formal could be, and I think you can see it in the way people dress. I think that's a great example. I can remember in my earlier careers I thought it was thing to do and I'm talking now about the 80s and 90s right where you had to wear a suit and it was even women, men. You know, if you were going to be in the corporate world, you must wear and address your people formally and you wear a suit. I mean I used to have matching shoes, handbags and all that stuff and stockings.

Speaker 1: 17:28

Don't forget the stockings. As a woman I mean, you know, pencil skirt and the stockings, oh it used to kill me.

Speaker 2: 17:33

So I was actually going against my grain, because I'm actually not that way at all. I'm much more informal person and always have been. Now I think what else plays into this a little bit is what is the worldview that you live in? So if you have a strong worldview of power, of fear, then you might use the titles of people because it's respectful and those sorts of things. But if you've got more innocent guilt or come from a background of Mr and Mrs who cares, I get annoyed when people ask me are you a miss or a missus? There's not any business. Who cares? My name's Karen Avery, just to give you that you know. Now, does that mean I have to treat the rest of the world? I'm using myself as an example here quite a bit, I noticed but does that mean I have to disrespect the other? No, if I'm going into a place where it's formal and titles are important and that a way of dress is important, then you do it. Yes, because it's respectful.

Speaker 1: 18:27

So when I'm going into a host country where it is disrespectful to show my shoulders or to wear shorts, I will wear long sleeve t-shirt or a longer t-shirt or trousers or a long skirt. I will take a scarf with a headdress because I'm showing respect to my host. And that's the same as when I go into a working environment I will be respectful to the culture and to the environment of that working space and how it works and then get an understanding of who's who and have that agility to be able to dance and adapt myself to then be able to build rapport and relationship with those around me.

Speaker 2: 19:05

It's always about how do we get the best out of a situation. Yes, I mean, if you're walking into a situation that is completely different to yours and you're going to, well, this is the way. I am not necessarily a good approach.

Speaker 1: 19:16

And I think that flows beautifully into connecting, which is the next one. Yeah, so connecting is exclusive and inclusive. Do you follow a chain of command? I will speak when I'm spoken to. I won't volunteer information unless I am asked or is it quite easy for you to have conversations with people, volunteer information? On the one hand? I think on the, the exclusive is very much defining people by what they do. What is their title, what is their education, are they agreed? And the other side is well, are they likely for who you are or I don't? It's got nothing to do with your title or your degree, because I will bring you into my world based on getting to know you and understand you and have free flow of communication, whereas sometimes, in the exclusions, a very strong sense of privacy and protocol.

Speaker 2: 20:06

Yeah, and I think also in this one it's also in the speed in which you get to know people. So when we're inclusive, it means that we want to get to know people more deeply, we want to know more about them. Yeah, when we're exclusive, it's really just on a sharing information, on a needs to know basis. Yes, so it's also about how we share information across that spectrum Very much so. I'm sure you know we've all been there. You're like, oh, that person just that's a whole pile of stuff I really don't need to know. And then you've got the other people like really, you could give me a little bit more. You know, yes.

Speaker 2: 20:42

So it's about finding that balance there which then comes into expression. So how do we express ourselves? Do we tend to reveal a lot or do we conceal? Where are our feelings? Some people are very happy to share lots about themselves. So if you have a revealing style of expressing yourself, then you are communicating very verbally and non verbally. So you're using your whole body when you communicate, so emotions flow easily. There's not a lot of inhibition, you just let people know what's going on with you. Someone who's more concealing style they don't necessarily want everybody to know how they're feeling. And I think something else that's important here. We talk a lot of things around mental health and those sorts of things and I think, depending on, again, context in some ways, but depending on what it is and do people feel safe enough to share as well, I think is important and something else that would be contributing to this. But when we talk about these 12 dimensions, more about just how we are naturally and not everybody likes to just blurb- Now it could be different in a work scenario.

Speaker 2: 21:54

The team versus maybe what they like at home with their family and loved ones maybe a little different, but they tend to still fall into those categories somewhere. They may just move up and down that polarity line.

Speaker 1: 22:08

And I think that's true in every single one. Yes, it is. We're going to move on to decision making, and I think that is also relevant in all of these. Where do you stand on the polarity? So decision making is very much around. Do rules form the basis of your decisions or does relationship form the basis of decisions? So, are decisions best dictated by rules and protocols or do important relationships influence them greatly? And rules over relationship?

Speaker 1: 22:36

In business, you will have a contract before anything starts when rules are the focus. So until we actually have something that is signed and legal, we will sign the contract. Then the business will start. On the other side, on relationship, it's like but we've had a handshake, we've had an agreement, we've had a conversation. We know the contract will come at some point. You know the nitty-gritty detail will be worked out as the project kind of carries on and that's okay on the relationship side.

Speaker 1: 23:02

So someone who comes from the polarity, very stony of rules, once we've got a contract, that is the contract and if you are now suddenly trying to negotiate, I'm going to question your trustworthiness because we agreed everything upfront, whereas if you're on the other extreme polarity, on relationships it's something that's fluid. I'm going to trust that we're going to do what we commit to do, regardless of what is written in writing. And it can be really uncomfortable for people and for environments where you can get yourself in serious hot water if you haven't done a change process or something hasn't been done correctly. Again, it's where are you on the polarity and what is actually going to be thoughtfully best for the situation at hand.

Speaker 2: 23:46

Indeed, I don't know. I think about it from our business perspective. We have both. I have to say. I think most of our business relationships are more in the relationship end of the spectrum. We do look at the legal stuff and make sure everybody's safe and sound. Thank God for Katrina? Yes, definitely, because for us it's all about relationships.

Speaker 2: 24:03

But what's interesting here? If you look at the world views so the person that you're dealing with he comes with a very strong innocent guilt culture. They're going to be probably a little more rules based because they're constitutionally and their legal system is a driver for that. So it is about having the rules in place. If we think about safety protocols around the world, the more innocent guilt the culture they tend to have more rules and regulations around safety the less innocent guilt the culture. Community it's a little less. It's a bit more forgiving in not necessarily in a good way, but right, both can be have their good and bad sides. So even when we talk about implementing a safety culture, we need rules. But for some it's going to be really difficult and for others it'll be easy. You know, for others it's more about the relationship, it's about the peers, their team. Well, I will follow the rules, but only if that's what the group does, does and expects Not because that's what the rules say.

Speaker 1: 25:02

You just made me think. How often do I say I am a very good rule follower when the rules make sense, yes, but I will err on relationship when the rule doesn't make sense to me. So then let's have a greater conversation, a bigger conversation. So you think about unwritten rules completely.

Speaker 2: 25:19

They're not necessarily about relationship, but it is in relation to how that team or that organization operates. Yes, so it's the relationship to the organization or to that project.

Speaker 1: 25:30

Well, as much as you say that, how often have we had the discussion that people will put themselves at risk in order to fit into the team? Most definitely. So you know that often that unwritten rule or the breaking the rules can be very relationship driven.

Speaker 2: 25:46

But it's also can make people feel very ill. Yes, absolutely, Because it's going against their grain. So let's move on to the next one Planning. When you're planning something, is your day-to-day activities governed more by people or by your schedule? I really admire people that have those calendars and they stick to those goals and those things. They're a little less so focused. I'm like oh, there's a person over there I can have a chat with, and I'm not even the big chatty one in this lot.

Speaker 2: 26:17

So you know, planning of the continuum there is people versus time. So when we're people focused, it means that we tend to do more one activity at a time. We deal with interruptions a little better. So somebody that's very focused on people will have time management issues for short. Oh, preaching to the choir over here. Oh, yeah, right, when we have somebody who's extreme time focused and task oriented, they will do one thing and they'll do it well, and interruptions can be very hard for them to deal with. It's very frustrating. Let's say we've just had a team meeting that says we're going to do X, Y and Z in this order over this period of time and everybody goes okay, let's do that. And then 10 minutes later, supervisor ever comes along. So, ah, sorry, we're gonna change that Change of plans. So the person just said, oh my God, I just had this all planned out in my head. This is the time frames it's gonna do, and this has thrown me completely for a six Exactly the people orient a person's going to. Oh well, poop happens, let's go.

Speaker 1: 27:17

And you see that in different, not just in different cultures but within different countries. And I love it because you know we have Johannesburg and we have Cape Town. So Johannesburg, you say come for dinner at seven. You arrive for dinner at seven and the hostess meets you at the door. The host would have you and you know, welcome drinks already. You arrive for seven o'clock when you've been invited at seven o'clock in Cape Town and they're like why are you early? You know the hostess is still putting her makeup on, stuff hasn't been organized, the table hasn't been set. I mean, you know it's just, it's a rough guideline. Yes, like 30 minutes late is on time, and I actually grew up very much in a family like that, where rubbing on time wasn't a thing. But I have learned that for many people it really is a thing and I have adapted my way of being to be respectful and to meet the needs of those for whom it is important.

Speaker 2: 28:13

And that's the critical piece here In all of this. It's about, yep, understanding who you are and then understanding how do we get the best out of the situation? What do I need to do? What's the agility? Do I need to get the best out of that other person, that team, that company, that whatever? So this is really useful if you're moving to different countries, if it's for the sales process, and all of these combined If you're talking to somebody who is very much driven by I was thinking about, you know how you hand over a business card versus not. Even those small things can make a difference.

Speaker 1: 28:51

So what's our next one? Communication, which is just a brilliant segue from there. Because when we look at the polarities of direct and indirect, so, do you communicate directly and in the open you know it is true to myself, to be completely frank, and this is what I'm saying or do you feel it's more appropriate to use an indirect, third person form of communication? So I might be wanting to say something very blunt, but I feel if I use the words that are in my head, it's going to damage the relationship. So I will find a different way of saying it, or maybe a different person to pass on that message, if I feel it would be better received.

Speaker 1: 29:27

So direct communication is openly confronting issues. This is what's going on. This is where we're at. What are we going to do about it? This is my opinion, whereas on the other side it's maybe more about not on what is said but on how it's said. So how do we address difficult issues, but in an indirect way, so that we're bringing people along and maybe not building barriers, which can sometimes also cause confusion, Because we're saying it in such a supposedly tactful and indirect way that people walk away and have no idea actually where they stand or what was meant by it. So again it's how do we walk along these polarities where an understanding that some people can read between the lines they get that in communication, other people need things to be said as it is. It's black and white, just give it to me. And how do we bring those?

Speaker 2: 30:23

together. We talk a lot about having conversations that matter, yes, and that could be misconstrued that well, we just need to go out there and have conversations no, but those conversations still have to have all of these considerations built into them. And my personality type, for example. I can be a little bit blunted sometimes, I know that, and I will spend probably my entire life trying to make sure I can temper that when need be.

Speaker 1: 30:48

Well, like me, I can be very velvety.

Speaker 2: 30:54

I mean, you are one of those rare people that actually can be blunt and people say thank you. I'm one of those people who's blunt and they go gosh, he's a bitch, you've got one of those little magical bits but which I don't get, so I have to work really hard on that. But it is again. It's constantly looking at how do we not? And by using ourselves as examples here, it shows you that we're all different. We do this well. We love communicating with people, we love to get the best out of people. We just do it differently.

Speaker 1: 31:29

Yeah, and lean on each other as well, because sometimes things need to be a little bit more blunt and it's like, yes, come and have this conversation.

Speaker 2: 31:39

How can I shorten that sentence? So we get to the point.

Speaker 1: 31:42

Yes, yeah.

Speaker 2: 31:44

I used to run some workshops with a co-facilitator who used to do it in the different language. We'd start in English and I'm like it used to amuse me no end. It sit there and I'd explain something. I would take 10 words to explain it in English and five minutes later no 15 minutes later.

Speaker 2: 32:02

All right, I would look do you want to go? Did we just say the same thing? You should go, yeah, okay, and sometimes it's the other way round, exactly. And again, that's cultural, because of completely different backgrounds, hence the language differences, etc. So it's very amazing. Accountability is the 11th dimension. We look at it from community and individual. So the continuum is are we more focused on the community for accountability or individual accountability? And I always find this one really interesting around when we talk about the three colors of worldview. So if I'm more of an innocent guilt culture, I may be more individual. If I come from a more powerful or honest shame, it will definitely be more about community.

Speaker 1: 32:48

Oh gosh, and I saw that so beautifully on one of the projects I was on, because the observation system really was epically failing and it was through consultation and conversation, because they just kept getting bigger prizes and more expensive prizes, but it was all individualistic and after consultation and discussion around, and I don't advocate bonuses and that kind of stuff for safety at all.

Speaker 1: 33:13

However, this was many years ago, but it was a lovely example of this, because the reward wasn't team-based. They didn't want it. Nobody actually wanted to win the prize because they would then stand out as almost being selfish or not being a part of the team, and it was things that they could not share. So when it changed to community-based and team-based, they suddenly had a whole different conversation and were getting far more valuable input and suggestions on how to improve the working environment, because the community or the team could then share in the reward Exactly.

Speaker 2: 33:50

I think that just described it really beautifully. So I mean, we often talk about so how do we make people more accountable? Well, maybe it's about understanding some of the cultural diversity here and know well where are we working. So if I'm an innocent, guilt-based organization working in an honor shame culture or community, which is what you've just described, then how do we need to shift this so that we get the best for both worlds? Because actually, from the innocent guilt, we tend to be a little bit more of an individualistic approach to the world not completely, of course, because family and communities and whatever is important, but there's a bigger sense of I and right and wrong. You must do this or not do that Whereas a community-based culture is about what brings honor to the community or what brings shame to the community.

Speaker 2: 34:42

So in a very strong honor shame community, they don't even understand this concept of innocent and guilt. What do you mean? There's a right and a wrong. It's got nothing to do with right and wrong. It's about how does the community cope with this. Yes, what does the community need to do to grow and to evolve and deal with that individual that might have done something but is more community-based? So accountability is very interesting. It is. We see lots of articles and whatever you know, linkedin or wherever, whatever leadership programs, accountability this, that and the other. But it looks at it from a very innocent guilt perspective. I've got to say Western world mostly right Because judicial systems of that way were brought up that way. And just to be clear, all communities have all of these viewpoints but some will be more preferential than others.

Speaker 1: 35:32

Exactly, some will be at a different stage along the line. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 35:35

So community-based focus is more about we and we talk a lot about that from a. How do we have conversational intelligence? We try to move, how do we move from I to we? And it's important. But it's also important to understand the individual Might be a little bit more oriented and they will find it difficult to move to the we because they might be more solution-focused rather than community-focused. So that accountability is very interesting. So with an individual, you know, being unique and standing out and being original is really encouraged In that individual world. In the community world, it's conforming to the group expectations is encouraged. And again, all through these explainers, we're talking about the extremes.

Speaker 1: 36:16

Yes, because there's a lot in the middle and so lucky last. The 12th dimension is on status. So is status ascribed or is it achieved? And the question is is one status and position earned through individual effort or acquired due to one's age or family or connections? And one of the examples is are you if we think of kings and queens and royalty and all of that are you automatically going to be the next person in power? Or, on the other side, are you going to be brought into power because you have achieved certain accolades, you've been voted in on those kind of extremes.

Speaker 1: 36:56

So on the ascribed side, it's very much a connection to who you are. So where have you come from? What is your background? What is your status in the community? Role and rank is very important.

Speaker 1: 37:09

On the achieved side, it is about what you are and what you have achieved. It doesn't matter where you've come from, but you can go out and be the first person in your family to get a degree. You can be in a position of power, as in you might be a manager or a leader, but on the achieved side, you will be possibly more willing to get your hands dirty with your team if stuff needs to be done. On the ascribed side it may be. I've been promoted into a management role. I am. Therefore there are certain things I do and I don't do. The team do the work, I do the overseeing, but I won't come in particular get my hands dirty. So the expectation is with people that have achievement is that status is then ascribed to them because of what they have achieved. On the other side, it's status is given to me because of where I've come from and what title I have.

Speaker 2: 38:00

And again, you'll see that in different communities and cultures around the world, some people are born into a world. They don't even want to be born into it, but they've got little choice. And I'm thinking now royalty, and I'm thinking of the British royalty at the moment All of those people are there because they were born into it. That's got nothing to do whether we think that they're good or indifferent or bad or what they do. They are definitely born into that position and we see that in cultures all over the world. And then there'll be other people who it's really difficult for them to come out because of the classes and the race classes within communities or within cultures.

Speaker 2: 38:35

So the point of this whole episode has been really to say that these dimensions are there as guides.

Speaker 2: 38:42

They do make up the total of the cultural influences that apply to an individual's life, together with personality traits and factors that help inform the way that we think, feel, speak and act. So as we get to know ourselves, it also helps us to get to know others. So we'd be really interested to hear about which of these, which side of those polarities and there's a lot there, so you might need to go to the show notes to see them, because we'll put the primary bits of information in there how comfortable versus uncomfortable we're with each end of the polarities. And, of course, do reach out. And if you want to learn more about how to work with others who are different, who have different cultural dimensions to you, then just send us an email at hello at safetycollaborationscom or go to the website and send us a note. That way In our next episode we might share some examples of how this actually looks in practice. So we might go to another episode with this three-part series on bridging cultures for safety.

Speaker 1: 39:50

So, in summary, understanding that even though we see the world through different cultural lenses, it does not mean that we can't work in harmony together. We may need to be open to having conversations at matter and learning to do what I love to call a cultural dance together. Absolutely, reach out to us to discuss how to bridge your cultures for safer operations and to build on your culture of care.

Speaker 2: 40:15

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 40:15

Thank you for joining us today. It is always lovely to have conversations at matter and, as you'll probably notice, this is something we are very passionate about and can talk a lot on. Our website has a lot of information. You'll find the show notes for this episode there. Leave us a message on the chat section. Follow us on LinkedIn Safety Collaborations, karinovari and Minu Ligege. And, as always, sharing is caring. Follow us on your favorite podcast platform. Leave us a review. It really helps other people to find the information that may help them have better conversations and safer operations. And until next week, stay safe and stay well.