E054_What exactly are Core Values and why should you care about them?

Are your company's actions reflecting its stated values? Can you confidently say that your corporate values attract the right employees and clients? 

Join us as we jump into the often underestimated world of core values. What are they, and why should they matter to you? We decode the significance of values and why they're not just words on a wall or a website but a call to action.

Learn how values, when deeply rooted in an organisation's culture, can shape its identity, guide decision-making, and foster trust. 

We look at the Core Values Canvas Activity introduced by the Fearless Culture Organisation, a fascinating tool that helps you explore the alignment (or misalignment) of values within your team or organisation with physiological responses that might surprise you.

Hear about our journey of defining our core values, underpinning our team's actions and decisions. 

We unveil our five core values:

🌟 Openness 
🔍 Transparency 
💬 Candour 
🧩 Challenge
🤝Trust

and how they drive our commitment to excellence.

Join us in this enriching conversation and discover the true power of core values in shaping your organisational culture and the future you envision.

So, let's start this journey of self-discovery and empowerment through the world of core values. Don't just listen; take action because values should be more than just words – they should be a guiding compass for your life and business.

Thanks for listening!

____________________________________
This episode was produced under Safety Collaborations Limited and now continues as part of Karin Ovari Limited. While we are not currently releasing new episodes, the entire library remains active, and the topics covered are just as relevant today as when they were first recorded.

To learn more about my current work in leadership and communication, visit karinovari.com and the leadership community, The Supervisors Hub.

Connect with us on LinkedIn:  Karin Ovari, Nuala Gage,

If you enjoyed this episode, please help us spread the word and leave a review on your preferred podcast player. 
 
 Stay Safe, Stay Well
The Safety Collaborators

Transcript

Core Values

Speaker 1 0:12

Take a look at this list of corporate values Communication , respect , integrity , excellence . They sound pretty good , don't they ? Maybe they even resemble your own company values . If so , you should be nervous . These are the corporate values of Enron , as claimed in its 2000 annual report , and they're absolutely meaningless . This was taken as a summary from the HBR article Make your Values Mean Something by Patrick M Lentioni .

Speaker 2 0:47

I am Nula and I am Karen and we are the safety collaborators .

Speaker 1 0:52

Our mission is to help people have better conversations and change the way they think about safety . Consider us your thinking partners , sharing expertise and wisdom in everything safety , safety culture and psychological safety .

Speaker 2 1:08

So let's talk about values . It's a critical conversation and it's not had often enough or revisited or challenged . We see them everywhere , but what do they really mean ? So what are values and why should we care ? The Cambridge Dictionary gives a single definition of values the principles that help you to decide what is right and wrong and how to act in various situations . I love that . Yeah , I'd say it's really good , it's great . So what we're saying here is that , basically , values are not just meant to inspire people , but they are to promote action . They're not meant to be just a bunch of words plastered up on a wall somewhere that , with a bit of luck , somebody might see .

Speaker 1 1:57

Or on your website . So when your potential customers or suppliers look at it , they go , oh , that sounds great . And you know you've got five values . We've got five values . Three of them are the same . We must be able to work together .

Speaker 2 2:09

I think probably everybody listening will be going . Maybe not quite , you know . Actually , I'd ask a question . You know , and if you know of a company or work for a company even that you think really lives to its core values , feel free to share that with us . We do have a little space on our posts these days where you can actually share that info with us . We'd love to know .

Speaker 2 2:33

We say that they're there to promote action .

Speaker 2 2:35

They're there to highlight what we believe in . They are our guiding principles that guide our actions . They're a flag in the ground so that we all work towards the same common goals , attract employees who fit and align with their values , and these days I think that is such a critical point Millennials and more I'm not one but they look for values and they look for alignment and we'll talk a little bit more about that in a minute but they look for alignment with their values , not their values aligning to yours , mr Company , but the other way around . And I think that's something really important to think about when you design what are the core values . It helps you to align to clients and service providers who share similar values and ethos and again , it's not about them coming to you , it's how do you show up for them , and they potentially create the future that we want to see . So we have these core values . So hang in there through this episode , because we're going to share our core values and how we actually came up with them .

Speaker 2 3:46

So I think these values , there's something that we need to really anyway give them very healthy consideration . We talk about it a lot . When we run alignment workshops , People will come to us and say , oh , we need to change the safety culture and we want to do this and this . And I actually had a conversation with somebody a couple of weeks ago and said , okay , so you've got all these people at the top here , this top row of their org chart . I said you want to do something . There's some idea around that things need to change . You've already done some of that work , but what do they all think ? The senior leadership team ? Has there been a conversation around alignment , around what is this meant to look like ? What are the values that we're going to espouse whilst we make a change around safety culture ? And he just looked at me , went no , that's probably a really good first step . And I went , possibly .

Speaker 1 4:34

Fabulous first step . Let's facilitate that conversation . On that note , it's often a conversation that takes part in that way . We have to look at the difference between a value and an aspiration . Absolutely , I love this and I'm going to read a quote out of the HBR article that I quoted earlier . It says I once asked the CEO of a Fortune 500 networking company to tell me one of his firm's core values , a sense of urgency . He replied without hesitation . So I asked your employees take quick action and hit all their deadlines ? No , he replied they're complacent as hell , which is why we need to make urgency one of our core values .

Speaker 1 5:16

That response reveals a confusion underlying many values initiatives . Far from being a core value , a sense of urgency didn't even exist in the organization . It was just an aspiration , a goal for the future . Too often executives mistake other kinds of values for core values , and the resulting hodgepodge bewilders employees and makes management seem out of touch . That just hit home so hard when I read it , because how often is it that companies have an aspiration of what they want to achieve , yet the reality isn't even a glimmer in what is going on in the organization ? That just causes so many clashes throughout the process . When we consider what you said earlier about guiding actions around attracting the right people . So here you're advertising , here's my values . Come and work with us , be our client , be our service provider . And then we wonder why the relationship fails because we're making a promise that we cannot deliver on .

Speaker 2 6:21

Yeah , I'm pretty sure we've all got amazing examples of that and it's the classic scenario that I'll see the word respect or integrity very key . We see them a lot , they're common . We see them a lot in company core values and you have to question many times do you question ? What does that look like ? Are they actually responding ? Are they respecting everybody ? Are they replying to their suppliers or to their clients on time ? Are they really showing integrity ? Or their internal clients , as in other departments , or their internal Absolutely ? So core values isn't about just what's on the surface , it's how do you embody those core values ?

Speaker 1 7:05

It reminds me so much of a saying your actions are speaking so loud , I cannot hear what you are saying . Yeah , I love it , it's brilliant . On the other side , companies who have incredibly strong values do seem to be more successful because their actions are speaking so loud . We can hear exactly what they're saying . Indeed , so when you work with a company whose values do speak so loudly , what does that give you as an employee , as a client , as a provider or just as someone interacting with that organisation ?

Speaker 2 7:40

I think it's the difference . For us , for example , that's potentially the difference between the client we want to work with and the one we don't .

Speaker 1 7:47

And sometimes you have to make a tough call on that and so yeah , no , indeed , and that's not always easy .

Speaker 2 7:53

No , I think our values are there to give us guidance . It's that stake in the ground , it's that sense of direction , sense of security . Even it helps everyone to understand what the organisation and each other stand for yeah , and who we are . There's some interesting core values out there from companies that are not in our industry . I'm actually just going to pull them up because I think it's quite interesting .

Speaker 1 8:20

While you're pulling that up , I was going to say you know , one of the other ones that , for me , is so huge is that when I've worked with teams or with companies that do live that strong value , I know that we can deliver on our promises .

Speaker 1 8:33

Yeah , it links to what you said around that sense of security , because when I'm going out there , I know that when I'm saying to my client , whatever's happening behind me is going to support that I'm not making one promise to my client , and then going back to the office and going oh my God , I hope we deliver on this With that sick feeling in your stomach of I've made this sale that I've done sound amazing , but I'm terrified that my personal values are going to be compromised , that the job's not going to be done , that we're going to end up failing and not being a strong company , because people never know which side of us they're going to get Exactly . For me , it brings consistency . I think that's probably a word that's quite strong here . Yeah , consistency in what we do . So did you find some fun examples ?

Speaker 2 9:19

I did . I did and I mean some of these might be a bit controversial . There's a few core values , that which ones would make sense . Now , zappos is a company I'm not actually 100% what they do . It's an American company but they're very successful in terms I think they do deliveries and things like that . But I love this line . So one of their core values , and I think , something that Gustavo Rosetti says , who's from the fearless cultural organization sometimes core values should be more than just a word what is behind the

Core Values and Company Culture

Speaker 2 9:49

word ? So here's one I love Deliver , wow , through service . I love that . I'm not going to read all of them , but that's Zappos . That's a really good one . And they've got another one which is nice , which I think is Be Humble , you know which is ?

Speaker 1 10:01

the other one of these that I love is the create fun and a little weirdness Absolutely Fabulous .

Speaker 2 10:07

Fabulous . Facebook is kind of interesting , but in reality , focus on impact , move fast , be bold , be open , build social value . Yeah , well , they probably do do all of those things . Google focus on the user and all else will follow . Not sure that's still true today , thanks to AI and a few other good tools out there , but still great , just isn't good enough .

Speaker 1 10:34

I love some of the Airbnb ones as well , because they can be serious but have a little bit of a twist of fun in them . So be a serial entrepreneur . As in the serial , you eat for breakfast because it's an Airbnb .

Speaker 2 10:49

Very cool , actually Patagonia who are infamous for their core values , actually , and living to them . So build the best product , cause no unnecessary harm , use business to protect nature and not bound by convention . Yeah , I like that one . Anyway , there's lots of them .

Speaker 2 11:09

Core values can be more than just the typical five words that we see everywhere , although we're going to share our typical five words shortly . But Well , typical , but Without twist . Yes , yes , so they set the foundation for company culture . So , whether it's your organisational culture , safety , organisational culture , they do help set the foundation and that's quite important . So I mentioned the Fearless Culture Organisation . They have a lovely activity called the Core Values Canvas and it's essentially looks at , it's a four-step process . You can use it with your teams or with your people . We use it in some of our workshops around alignment , but essentially it looks at what also inflates or deflates your core values . Oh , I love that . It's interesting because we don't think about them then . It's like I think it gives another dimension to the word , Because we might say things but we might look . You know , an employee might look at the company Core Value and go . That really just doesn't work for me .

Speaker 1 12:10

Oh , it's just completely out of touch with reality of what's happening here .

Speaker 2 12:13

Yeah , Is that really what we're about ? So that to me would be a deflate yes , Whereas let's have fun with a twist , it's kind of inflating . So there's a four-step process .

Speaker 1 12:25

And it is done with the picture of a balloon . Yes , it is as we're speaking . I just think you just think of your emotional , physiological response , because a lot of this does come down to our physiology . So when we are aligned and we're in tune with our values , we can put our shoulders back , our lungs full with air . It's that openness to put out there this is who we are and what we are . But when we feel that it's not aligned , you can almost feel your shoulders crunching forward , your head dipping down , your gut wrenching and your lungs deflating in disappointment . So I think the deflate and the inflate is not just a visual , but I think it's actually a physiological reaction to being aligned or not .

Speaker 2 13:09

Even as I was speaking just before about different words , I felt it . So maybe the challenge is everybody go and have a look at your company core values and which ones make you feel good and which ones don't it's as simple as that and then go hmm , interesting . So we'll put a link to that actually in the show notes , because it's a really great activity and it's up there in the public domain , so go for it . The question then is is the execution of these company values easy ?

Speaker 1 13:41

No , and I think it starts right at the beginning of developing these core values , because we can go onto Google and go what are the top five core values that I should have in my company ? And we copy and we paste and we put them up on the wall and on the website and we think that those sound amazing and it'll attract customers or employees . But to actually develop your core values , you really need to dig deep and it needs to be that alignment , as you mentioned earlier , amongst the team , to say , yes , this is what we believe in . And then it's about going out and saying , well , how do we live this , how , what does it look like , feel like , what are people thinking , what are people saying , what are people doing ? And then , how do we make sure that this is rolled out through the company ? So , a small organization , like a company of three , it's pretty easy . We sit around , we have a discussion , we all agree , we're in alignment fabulous . We get a little challenge every night again and we go oh , you know how does that work .

Speaker 1 14:42

But what happens when we grow ? Because agreeing values in your company is one thing , but executing them is even more critical . So , as we grow as an organization as we acquire . Let's say we buy in other businesses . Many companies , big corporates , are grown and built through acquisition . Now you're getting company values from A , from B , from C , from D . How do we integrate that ? Then we have the joy of good old egos and politics . That gets thrown into the mix Because , well , that might be the company value . But in this situation I know better . So we're going with my decision because it's all about me , or I haven't thought it through , or I don't see our values as a stake in the ground , and I think that's when you really see that the values aren't being used in the decision making process .

Speaker 2 15:26

Yes , and really that's part of what the core values are all about Is action . Yes , yeah , yeah .

Speaker 1 15:32

You know , and it's in those moments where , again , you go back to , yeah , the values sound really good , but they're either hard to live by or they're completely incongruent or clash with the unreturned rules of how the organization lives . You know like sense of urgency . Oh , so if you want , gets things done , no , no , no , but that's what we want , well , then you know you're living a lie . Yeah , and they can possibly become diluted over time . I think of that example of politicians and I couldn't think of anything worse . I think it must be such a difficult career path to follow , because people generally go into politics because they want to make a change , they want to do things right .

Speaker 2 16:08

Couldn't agree more .

Speaker 1 16:09

And they are incorruptible until they do something slightly off , and then suddenly their incorruptibility becomes diluted . And the same happens with values . You just cross that line a little bit once and your value is no longer core . It's become a nice to have .

Speaker 2 16:24

It's just some words that get bandied about Exactly and have no meaning , you know . No , I think trust then comes into this . Yes , because then you're breaking trust within the organization and externally . Yeah , and going back to the opening statement , that's what happened with Enron when it crashed and burned the world , distrusted it completely .

Speaker 1 16:46

And those words were utterly meaningless , because they were not used for making decisions . Yeah , they were there to look good , to attract external parties , and that's it . Yeah , but you know , I don't think this is something that you do once and then you just say it's done and dusted , we've done our values . We never look at it again .

Speaker 2 17:03

I think companies changed , groups changed , people changed , the world changes , so we need to sort of move and shake with that , and that includes what seems sensible today may not be so sensible tomorrow . Think about yourself as an individual . You know , when have you experienced value , a value , challenge or a clash ? And why is that so ? Thinking about the internal and the external values , we have our intrinsic values and we talk about beliefs and values . Now , beliefs are something that evolve over time . They are formed from probably before we're in the , even in the womb Depends who you listen to . So they evolve throughout our lifetime and they can change . But our core values , actually , it's really difficult to change they . Also they're very intrinsic to who we are and if I go and work for a company which is now has their values , which is extrinsic values , it's very difficult , if they're out of alignment , for me to really live by that .

Speaker 2 18:07

One of the big oil majors here in Aberdeen in fact he's not the CEO anymore , but he was back then . They were going through a lot of this is a few years ago . They were really trying to improve the safety culture and organizational culture of the organization and he realized that and this was the top of the tree and he realized just having those values on the board or espoused values somewhere wasn't making a difference and he said look , we have these great values , why is it not making a difference further down the line ? What's missing ? So he actually started and some people listening may know this story because it's quite famous here .

Speaker 2 18:49

He actually started a newsletter from the CEO talking about the core values of this business and it took a long time . It took months , probably years , but slowly but surely through his interacting , because he thought I can't go and talk to 40,000 people . So , coming back to , how difficult is it to implement ? You know , if it's a team of three fine 40,000 people , slightly more difficult . So he said how can I help people understand that core values are intrinsic to who we are as an organization , so not just as individuals but as the organization , and how can I make them believe that we will make decisions based on them ?

Speaker 2 19:33

So he did start this weekly our values newsletter and he wrote it himself . It was before the days of AI and anything else . So he really got involved with the probably the comms team , I would say and really put it out there every pretty short was weekly and that he did that till the day he left . Wow , and that helped . Talk about leading from above , leading from the front line , absolutely . You know it was turning up in people's inbox every week from the CEO , you know , and I think it makes a very big difference .

Speaker 1 20:07

Well , it creates common understanding , because unless we all have a common understanding and we know what we mean by respect , by trust , by any of the values that are put up there , we go off with our own interpretation based on experience , based on the lives that we've lived up to that point . So , until we have a common understanding , the word might need a lot of double clicking to be able to come to a common understanding .

Speaker 2 20:35

Indeed , you could bring in lots of other things into this , like what are the success factors of those values , of those words ? They are an important part of the process because that's how an organisation and individuals make decisions .

Speaker 1 20:48

Thanks for listening . We are all about helping you , so why not drop us a line at hello at safetycollaborationscom and see what we can do for you ? Back to the conversation .

Core Values

Speaker 1 21:00

Going back to that value , challenge or clash for me it's that gut feel , you know , like kind of like when you faced with something and you go yeah , why is this making me uncomfortable ? Okay , there's something behind it , Indeed , and in my life , whenever I've tried to push through and go , I'm just imagining it all . You know what it has turned around and bitten me badly .

Speaker 1 21:23

I'm learning as I grow in wisdom you know , because we don't grow in age , we grow in wisdom . Indeed , we do To trust that gut more that when I start getting that feeling to really question and say , well , how is this pricking my intrinsic and extrinsic values ? Yes , you know . And where is this discomfort coming from ?

Speaker 2 21:44

A lot of people say , oh , health is an important value , but they don't live the journey . So health can be a value right . To me personally , health is a value , a core value . I don't mean that me right this minute , but what I mean is it could be to an individual . So in that case , what are the behaviors that we observe about that person whose core value is health , or whose core value is community , or whose core value is family , whatever it is ?

Speaker 2 22:15

I have an interesting debate with people on this one , because I think friends and family are pretty much fundamental to who we are as a human race . Not everybody puts family first . They might put friends first , others might put family first and then friends , but generally they're in the kind of similar bucket . So I think they are very common to most individuals , to most , but then we start to shift from those . So whenever I've run this activities with individuals , I usually say let's put family and friends to the side , now dig deeper , because that's a very easy one to sort of throw off the top . To be honest , it's a bit like communication .

Speaker 1 22:49

It is , but it's also one that's very visible to see when it's not in alignment .

Speaker 2 22:53

Yeah , but you know , if you've got someone who says , oh no , I really care about my health , but they don't do the exercise required , they go out in McDonald's twice a week , they do whatever then yeah , maybe not . You know , maybe it isn't as core . It's something they value , but it isn't a core value . No , and there's a little difference . I think Values require action , not just words . How did we come to our values ?

Speaker 1 23:20

Well , one of the things I loved is that we didn't go to Google or chat , GPT or anything out there . We actually in the early stages of the business it was you and I having one of our long evening conversations around the business and you know kind of like ideas and where we're at and we started talking about , well , how do we want to work together , how do we want to show up for our clients , how do we want to interact with our service providers , and the words came to us and the conversation flowed .

Speaker 2 23:52

They actually came . We literally typed them into house space within five minutes , and I think what's really interesting for us on that is that it's because they are probably values that are caught at us as individuals as well . Yes , very much so . So it wasn't that difficult for us to come up with our core values , and we did then share them with Katrina , of course , and we said what did you think ? She actually added some really cool bits to them , and we all agree . And we still look at them and go yeah , we still agree , they still make us warm and fuzzy and inflate us .

Speaker 2 24:23

They do inflate us . You can find them on our About page on our website , just in case you're curious . So let's share what are our values ?

Speaker 1 24:31

First , one Openness , so open-mindedness , and that is all around . We love to listen , to learn , we love fresh ideas , and it's all about growing together . Now , it doesn't mean that we all have to agree , but it's around being open to the conversation and having the open-mindedness to take into account everything that's going on around us and to learn , and I think this podcast actually falls into that category .

Speaker 2 24:58

very , very well , I mean , I think it falls into all of them in some ways . We started this podcast with the view of being open and sharing yes , and maybe a little transparency at times , which is our second one Holding up the mirror and sharing vulnerability . Vulnerability is such an important component in this day and age . I think a lot of people struggle with vulnerability . I think we each do . Even I still struggle with vulnerability , but we need to be real and honest and we love to celebrate the wins , and we're also pretty good , actually , at owning our oops de-moments , and it's okay not to be perfect , because we're human beings Absolutely , and I think that's important about values altogether is that you know it's an ongoing process . They should be evergreen , yes .

Speaker 1 25:47

So , and then our next one is candor , and what we mean by that is frankness , honesty and sincerity in communication . You know , sometimes that's about having the tough conversations . You know keeping it straight up and respectful and ensuring that everyone feels heard and valued . We've had some tough , frank conversations , you know , as friends , as a team , about the business . You know about clients that we work with or we don't work with , and we do take that candor into externally , into some of the conversations that we have with people , because , as we've often said , we don't do tick box exercises . What we do is we want to create meaningful change and if we don't believe that we can create meaningful change , we need to be honest and frank enough and sincere in the communication of you know what , you're not ready for us , yeah , or whether that's holding each other accountable of hey , nools , you made a promise , was it ?

Speaker 2 26:45

a slippery promise . And that leads us into our fourth , which is challenge . So how do we constantly challenge ourselves and the way that we do things ? How do we keep identifying new and better ways to have the next day in our personal life , business life , team life ? Whichever way we look at it , we're curious problem solvers , and I think all three of us definitely are . We are very much curious people . We're always looking for the next big thing . I spend a little bit too much time in the Chinese bubble land but right .

Speaker 2 27:17

So I need to be pulled back occasionally , and this is really one for me . I've always believed there's always a better way until there isn't .

Speaker 1 27:23

And also the challenge is about going just because we've learned something or we've done something in the past that has worked doesn't mean that it's right for now . So maybe there's a different process , maybe there's a different way of doing things . You think about the move from behavioral based safety 20 years ago and what it looked like and it was new and it was bright and shiny and it was making a difference , and how that's evolved and grown through challenge , through that learning culture , and I love that we bring that into the business . We'll find an article and go , oh , that's just challenged my perspective on kind of like stuff that I've possibly been preaching for the last 10 years and let's look into it more . And then let's go and challenge our environment around us to say , hey , how do we learn from this ? How do we grow ? How do we make it a better day ?

Speaker 2 28:10

And challenge is not about being challenging . No , that's not at all what we mean . It's about looking internally and externally and around us , maybe doing the , maybe challenge or something you know , to see how we can do things better . So that's really what it's about .

Speaker 1 28:26

And that's where that word you mentioned is so critical . Curious .

Speaker 2 28:30

Very when we talk about psychological safety . Part of that is how do we challenge the status quo ? And that's really what it means . It doesn't mean breaking rules . It doesn't mean being rude or obnoxious or , you know , stubborn . That's not what we mean by that . It means let's look at the status quo , let's be curious , let's always look for a new way to do things which lead us to our probably most favorite , the secret source , exactly .

Speaker 1 28:58

The underpinning trust , which is the glue that allows us to do anything . It's being able to speak freely , to take leaps , to have each other's backs , because when we have that solid foundation of trust as a team , together , we are unstoppable .

Speaker 2 29:16

There is nothing we can't do . We started this based on trust . Our business is based and steeped in trust Trust of friendship , trust of capacity . We think about trust . We think about it as it's our capacity to get things done . It's more than just oh , I think they're a nice person , but there is real value in what we bring to the business and to our clients .

Speaker 1 29:41

And it really does underpin the other four . Yes , it does , because we can trust that we are open , we can trust that we can be transparent , even if it feels that we're being vulnerable and we might be showing our ugly parts . I mean , this week was a perfect example . You know , yesterday I just said to you . I said , kaz , I don't have the right energy today , please can we record another day Because I'm not going to bring my best . And you were like , okay , no worries , let's make a time , we'll shuffle diaries , we'll do what we need to do to support each other as a team , that we are then giving of our best to what's out there .

Speaker 1 30:16

So I love when we go back and we look at these and we do go . Is that still underpinning who we are ? Is it still guiding us ? And when we feel a little bit of that awkwardness of feeling like , oh , we're being pushed into a corner here , we can go back to these and go . Actually , we will stand our ground Because this is what we believe . And sometimes it may mean that , you know , the business grows a little bit slower , and you know what . That's okay , because we will grow on a strong foundation , that we leave people feeling that we are delivering what we promise and in a way that we promise , and it's not always easy . So what are the key things that we learned about values ? And I think , for me , one of the first ones is dig deep . Whether it's looking at your values , whether it's looking at your life saving rules . Dig deep and make it your own . Don't go and copy and paste , and sometimes you need a process behind that . Ask yourself the question .

Speaker 2 31:15

Action driven or good intentions or aspirations . So remember values require action , not words .

Speaker 1 31:21

Be clear about your values and why they are critical . Live by them , lead with an example , put them before profit , and never compromise , because then you end up down a slippery slope . So let's rather end up on a solid foundation .

Speaker 2 31:37

How can we help you have better conversations about building a learning and executing your values to have more effective and safer working environments . Reach out to us and , as always , thank you for joining us today . It's always lovely to have a conversation that matters . Connect with us on our website , safetycollaborationscom , where you will find the show notes for this episode and a space for you to share your thoughts and moments of interest from this episode . Follow us on LinkedIn . We're all pretty easy to find , to be honest . Come to think of it . So safety collaborations two words Karenavari , two words Noligage two words Not hard to find . A lot of energy goes into doing this podcast and we know people are starting to really enjoy it , and you can help us a little bit further . Share it with others , give us a review . That would be awesome , so that others will find the podcast as well . Till next week , stay safe and stay well .